House of Pardons

This episode delves into the intriguing and often controversial world of presidential pardons. We explore their historical significance, the motivations behind notable pardons, and the broader implications for justice and political integrity. 
• Examination of the constitutional power granted to presidents 
• Insights into the scale of pardons under recent administrations 
• Discussion of the types of pardons: full, commutations, and reprieves 
• Analysis of cases like Patty Hearst and political implications 
• Reflections on the intersection of pardons and public perception 
• Consideration of the ethical dimensions surrounding the pardoning power 
• Exploration of the tradition of pardoning turkeys at Thanksgiving 
• Conclusion emphasizing the need for ongoing scrutiny of pardoning practices

Chapters

• 0:00 Power of Presidential Pardons
• 14:35 Presidential Pardons
• 19:52 Presidential Pardons

Transcript

Rob: 0:00

So what do you think of Thanksgiving, turkey and?

Victor: 0:01

Richard Nixon have in common they both broke into the Watergate complex to steal Democratic National Committee documents.

Cesar: 0:11

That was very specific, yeah, very precise Very precise yeah. I can't follow that.

Victor: 0:19

You guys don't know Watergate.

Rob: 0:22

Well, they both got pardoned. So today we're diving deep into the world of presidential pardons. What are they, how do they work and why are they such a lightning rod for controversy, from historical precedent to constitutional authority? We'll explore the stories behind these final acts of clemency. I'm not dumb, but what's a presidential pardon?

Cesar: 0:42

Welcome to the I'm not dumb, but podcast, where we won't claim to have the answers to life's deepest questions but we'll give you an exciting journey into the realms of knowledge you never knew you'd either. Might be mainstream, but not common knowledge. From artificial intelligence to conspiracy theories, no topic is too taboo for us to explore. Let's get curious together.

Rob: 1:02

I'm Rob, your host for today, joined by the man who's currently working on his fourth master's at the University of Ancient Aliens, cesar Almost done, the most stand-up guy I know Victor how y'all doing? And, of course, chris Yo. On January 20th 2025, in the waning hours of their presidencies, two American leaders wielded one of the most extraordinary powers granted to the office the power of the pardon.

Cesar: 1:31

It's magnificent.

Rob: 1:33

Incoming President, donald J Trump, made headlines with an unprecedented move, granting a full and unconditional pardon to 1,500 individuals convicted of crimes connected to the January 6, 2021 Capitol insurrection. Additionally, he commuted the sentences of 14 others involved in the events of that day, a decision bound to spark fierce debate about justice, accountability and political messaging. You guys hear about this, yes, but did you also hear that meanwhile, 20 minutes before he was about to leave office, president Joe Biden issued five family pardons and a move that stunned political landscape, pardoning his brother James, sister Valerie, three other close family members and even including the infamous COVID response chief, anthony.

Victor: 2:23

Fauci, and there was a general also. Yes, yes, I did read about the general. Ironically, it's not even like, wasn't even under Biden's administration. It was Trump's administration. The general under him.

Chris: 2:37

Oh, interesting. Yeah, Biden gave it out like it was like a fucking Halloween. You know, candies, like you get one, you get one, you get one, you get one.

Cesar: 2:46

But the crazy thing about it is like there was a bigger uproar for that than there was a Trump one.

Rob: 2:52

Yes, Well, we'll get into why there was a little bit of a uproar about that and maybe it'll make a little more sense. So Biden claimed the action was a shield against political retribution rather than any admission of wrongdoing. These pardons, announced just minutes before he left the Capitol, left Americans wondering about the limits and the ethics of this remarkable presidential power. So why are we talking about presidential pardons today? Because this single act of absolute, unchecked power granted by the Constitution has the potential to rewrite justice. It can redefine legacies and it can reshape public trust.

Cesar: 3:27

Such power, it's raw power.

Rob: 3:29

But to understand why this matters so much, we need to start with the basics. So what exactly is a presidential pardon?

Chris: 3:37

Is it when the government they forgive everything, pretty much your crimes or whatnot just goes away?

Victor: 3:44

I think it depends on what the pardon is for exactly, but basically it's a get out of jail free card. Like how do you get it? Do you have to apply for it? Do you know the president?

Cesar: 3:53

Yeah.

Rob: 3:54

You have connections. I mean if you're cool with the president, you get it.

Victor: 3:56

I think also governors can give pardons though as well, but only like for state crimes.

Rob: 4:01

Let's clear it up. So pardon is an executive act that forgives someone for a federal crime, essentially wiping away their punishment. So under Article 2, section 2 of the United States, my favorite article.

Rob: 4:14

The Constitution gives the president the authority to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. The Supreme Court interpreted this power as plenary, or in other words unrestricted and absolute, meaning it's extremely broad and largely free from congressional interference. So there was like a landmark case, called like Expart Garland in 1866, and another one in United States First Klein in 1871. And this pretty much made it clear Congress cannot limit the ability to pardon. This is up to the president, at his disposal. But this authority didn't appear out of thin air. Its roots trace back to English history, where it's known as the prerogative of mercy. So it first emerged during the 17th century reign of King Ina of Wessex. While the power faced abuses over time, it persisted through the American colonial period and became part of our constitution thanks to Alexander Hamilton. So at the constitutional convention Hamilton argued for a strong, expansive pardon power to reside solely for the president, separate of the judicial system.

Cesar: 5:31

I should really see that musical. Have you not seen it? I haven't seen it, it's on.

Rob: 5:35

Disney+. I haven't seen it either. I want to see it live. Do your, it's very expensive, I know.

Cesar: 5:40

Are you talking about Alexander Hamilton?

Victor: 5:42

What was his deal? Why was he so pushy on it? What was he trying to hide? I?

Rob: 5:46

don't know, I didn't get into that, he was just all about it though.

Victor: 5:50

It seems kind of weird, though. He just wakes up. He's like man. The president should be able to pardon any crime. Pumpy breaks key.

Chris: 6:00

That man's a national treasure.

Rob: 6:01

I think it comes down to what pardons give, and we're going to talk about that, but I think they're actually needed in certain cases. So let's break down pardons and commutations, okay. So first we have a full pardon which completely erases a conviction. That's the one Chris was talking about Fully on everything's gone. Then you have a commutation, and so this reduces the sentences but doesn't clear anyone of a conviction. Then you have a reprieve which can delay punishment, and then amnesty, which is basically a blanket pardon for a bunch of people. So that's kind of what trump did 1500 people, blanket pardon, amnesty for a while.

Victor: 6:41

yeah, and amnesty, like their earlier work was a lot better than their newer stuff. If that's a joke, I don't get it Like it's a band.

Rob: 6:49

I got it. Is that like an English band?

Victor: 6:51

Yeah.

Rob: 6:53

Killed? No, nobody. But here's the kicker with this power, it has a few limitations. A crime must have been committed to issue a pardon, which is weird, because Joe Biden just issued a preemptive pardon when no crimes were committed and there was no idea of wrongdoing. So that's why his pardon is getting a lot of traction, because he's using it in a way that I think had not been used before.

Victor: 7:19

I don't think that's true with the preemptive pardon, that Biden was the first to do it. Oh, who did it then? Wouldn't Nixon have been the first to do it? Because Nixon was never charged of any crimes.

Rob: 7:30

But Nixon, wasn't he indicted? No, and I think Ford is the one that.

Victor: 7:36

That's why he resigned, because he thought it was coming.

Rob: 7:39

Yeah, but I don't think Nixon pardoned himself.

Victor: 7:41

No, it was the next president.

Rob: 7:44

Yeah, preemptive pardons is a pretty big one, because usually you need to be committed to a crime or, you know, be caught up in something.

Chris: 7:51

So basically, you're getting a free jail card before the crime.

Rob: 7:55

Before the crime. So in Biden's case it was like there was a threat of someone going after his family, so he just kind of got the jump on it.

Cesar: 8:06

So there was no trial.

Rob: 8:07

No, nothing. His brother and his sister and his grandma.

Victor: 8:12

No, it was to prevent political persecution towards his family and friends and whatever. We're not seeing any of that now, though.

Chris: 8:21

And as far as I'm concerned, the Biden family is a criminal enterprise.

Rob: 8:26

It really is crime must be committed and it only applies to federal offenses, not state crimes, which is something victor said and the president can't use the power to pardon or nullify impeachment. So it's kind of like the three key limitations. Right beyond those boundaries, the president has significant freedom to decide how and when to use this power.

Victor: 8:45

When, exactly when, I say it.

Rob: 8:48

So throughout American history, presidents have used the power of pardon in ways that have shaped the nation. So the very first part in which one do you think it was?

Victor: 8:57

It was Hamilton.

Rob: 8:59

He was never president. Because, he was from the Caribbean.

Victor: 9:03

Was he? I don't fucking't fucking.

Rob: 9:05

I didn't watch the play you got to get back into that man disney.

Victor: 9:10

Plus I'll give you my uh password I bet you it was grant roosevelt jackson. Oh good, one good answer.

Rob: 9:17

Yeah, I like that jackson doesn't get enough love. Yeah, you're all wrong. It was george Washington in 1794. Of course, yeah.

Chris: 9:25

I mean it's an easy one.

Rob: 9:26

I said the first presidential pardon, Like just go with the first president. You got this awesome power and you're not going to use it.

Chris: 9:32

Are you serious? I just told you that.

Rob: 9:35

So he pardoned the participants of the Whiskey Rebellion. So the rebellion was an armed uprising in 1794 by farmers and distillers in western Pennsylvania and it stemmed from anger over a federal excise tax on distilled spirits. They pretty much were up in arms and in order to cool everything down they kind of stopped and then he just pardoned everyone so that everyone kind of got over it and it kind of helped the nation. That's this whole idea, right? So the pardon basically granted mercy amongst these people, but also cool tensions in, like the political space. So I think that's really the key here, why Hamilton wanted it, because it has a useful tool. We're gonna be cool.

Rob: 10:16

Governors also have the power to pardon for state crimes, but their rules are a little different. So according to the ACLU, there are 15 states where governors are basically the kings and queens of clemency. They have full, sole authority to pardon and grant clemency whenever they see fit, no questions asked. So some states include, like Alabama, arkansas, california, colorado but in some of the other states it's a little different. The governor still has the power to grant clemency, but it's only a recommendation. It has to go through a clemency board or some sort of advisory group and this system, basically, is built in to add, like some layers of accountability.

Cesar: 10:55

Is the governor on the board or?

Rob: 10:57

no, no, it's a totally different board. And then there's other states like Georgia, nebraska, nevada, utah, where the governors have basically no power and it's 100% up to the board, and that's the way it's kind of broken down in our system. So, the process of pardoning, how do you guys think you do it?

Victor: 11:17

Oh, you got to fill out the proper forms. That's the P1A, the P1D. You need them in duplicate and you need them in notarized Black ink only Black ink, only in print, and it needs to be signed and dated With Trump in office.

Cesar: 11:33

I would just send him a DM. Yo, I need a pardon, bro.

Victor: 11:38

You got a truth social him. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'll send him a message on truth social.

Cesar: 11:45

I'll tell him that I'm thinking about buying Dogecoin Dogecoin.

Chris: 11:52

Doge, is that different?

Victor: 11:53

than Fordcoin, possibly Chevycoin.

Rob: 11:59

I'm thinking about getting a Dodge. What do?

Chris: 12:00

you think?

Victor: 12:01

I want to look into those Dodgecoins.

Chris: 12:08

Dogecoin is my favorite cryptocurrency because it has the best humor and has dogs.

Rob: 12:10

The president may grant pardons on their own accord or in response to requests made through the us department of justice's office of the pardon attorney. You could either dm trump, and he can just do whatever he wants you. You got to send Kim K.

Cesar: 12:23

Kim K can get you right in, so if you would go with her, you got to buy a house with the Skims, or is it Skims or Skins?

Victor: 12:30

Who knows who gives a shit. It's not trying to hide your fat ass. Maybe if you had a business that you were passionate about, then you would know what it takes to run a business. But you don't.

Rob: 12:43

Or you have to go through the office of the pardon attorney, and in which case you're exactly right. You have to fill out a form and do all these things. So, in order to do that, the pardon attorney investigates and reviews all applications of clemency, but serves only as an advisory role, and the way it works is yeah, you basically petition the office of the pardoned attorney for a federal crime that you may have committed. You include details about the conviction, your behavior afterwards, reasons for being pardoned, some letters of support from family members or friends. They do a thorough background investigation, as we know, and then, after that, they review your application and submit it to the president. Um, but it's ultimately the president's decision. So, oh, okay, and that's that's how that process goes so what?

Chris: 13:34

what do you think about um luigi? Do you think he's gonna get pardoned?

Victor: 13:38

no, no that was outright murder, I know. But yeah, we, yeah, we live in an oligarchy. Now Like this is where companies are ruling us. Open for business player Open for business.

Cesar: 13:55

Do you think they did?

Rob: 13:56

1,500 single applications or just one copy and paste? No, I think they didn't even fill out applications. Well, they might have, they might have. They probably just did one. Yeah, I think it was just overall overarching In that situation they might have, they might have. They're probably just doing one. And yeah, I think it was just overall overarching and in that situation they wouldn't really need it. The president can just go ahead and do it. There was actually some people that he pardoned that actually turned their pardon down.

Rob: 14:14

Yes, I was going to ask you about that?

Victor: 14:16

Yeah, I have heard about that.

Rob: 14:17

Yeah, but if you looked at their term, some of them didn't really do a lot of time. It was like I think one lady was like 60 days, another guy wasn't that long, so they were just like no time served. I'm kind of past it.

Chris: 14:35

If you get pardoned. Is there some kind of catch? Is there some kind of rules or something?

Rob: 14:37

that comes with it that you have to follow afterward. So a full pardon, everything is wiped clean. There's the other one where your conviction still stands right.

Chris: 14:46

Your sentence, yeah but there's no such thing. It's like you get full, full-on pardon, but if you get caught again there, you're like, you know, like your punishment.

Victor: 14:56

There there could be a time frame, like for for biden's pardon. There was a time frame. So he basically said in the past, whatever many years? They committed crimes, they are absolved of those sins. I don't know. Let's say you commit fraud or something like that, or tax evasion. I don't know. Something small, I don't want to get too serious. Let's say you steal a loaf of bread and you get pardoned, and then 10 years later you go and steal the loaf of bread. That is a different crime.

Cesar: 15:22

Yes.

Chris: 15:23

Right.

Rob: 15:23

Yes.

Victor: 15:25

That is a different crime. Yes, right, yes, it is not the same crime. So why do we pardon? Because we're forgiving Power move.

Cesar: 15:29

Yeah, if I'm the president, I'm pardoning everybody, all my homies, I'm swinging that power it's given to me, I'm going to take it. You get one, you get one, and a lot of the times it's going to come down to that.

Rob: 15:39

Pardons are about mercy. They're a way to correct injustices and offer second chances to reformed individuals. Also, they're a way to heal national wounds during times of division. So it is a political move. Yeah, you can get your friends out. You can get other people out of jail. If you see someone who has been rehabilitated and yes, they're doing better, but the system and they're caught in this bureaucratic cycle the president can go in there, cut all the red tape and put mercy and justice upon this person, which is a great power to have. But they also help in times of division. Let's look at a story here with Brigham Young's pardon. You guys ever heard about this story?

Cesar: 16:17

Isn't that a school, Utah right.

Rob: 16:20

Mormons.

Rob: 16:21

BYU in the hall, white so in the 1850s, brigham Young, a charismatic leader of the Mormon church, is essentially running Utah as his own theocratic kingdom. So a theocracy is a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God. The federal government led by President James Buchanan at the time is deeply suspicious of Young and the Mormon settlers. Why? Well, because the Mormons had their own laws, their own militia and their own controversial practices like polygamy and a bunch of other things. So tensions came to a head with the Utah War of 1857 to 1858. Buchanan declared that Young and his followers were in an open rebellion against the United States of America and he sent thousands of troops to Utah to suppress what he saw as a Mormon uprising. The full-on federal army of the United States of America goes marching down to Utah to basically squash this kingdom that's trying to develop itself. But the war never escalated into a full-scale violence, why Buchanan offered a blanket pardon to Young and the entire Mormon community.

Rob: 17:32

This was basically a strategic move to de-escalate the situation and reassert federal control. So they surrounded the whole place and basically gave them an out. Did they disband their militia? No, they still have it. No, I think they did, or they took on some of them. So Brigham Young's pardon paved the way for Utah to eventually become a state, but it also left a legacy of mistrust between the Mormons and the US government. So this was like a pretty highly controversial pardon at the time.

Victor: 18:03

Did you see the Book of Mormon? I did.

Rob: 18:05

And it's really good Also on Disney+.

Chris: 18:09

I saw that one live.

Victor: 18:10

Two by two, we're marching door to door Also.

Cesar: 18:13

he sounds weak.

Rob: 18:14

Who Brigham.

Cesar: 18:15

No Ken.

Rob: 18:16

Actually they said that that was one of the big things about his term. So pardons can be highly controversial, and some critics think that they're a tool for political favoritism, rewarding allies or even donors. So this line between justice and abuse of power gets very blurry. So let's look at another one here. So you guys ever heard of Patty Hearst?

Victor: 18:37

Yeah, she's like a writer, right.

Rob: 18:39

Her grandfather was William Randolph Hearst.

Victor: 18:42

Oh, she's an actress.

Rob: 18:43

So Patty Hearst, the granddaughter of publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst, was kidnapped in 1974 by the Symbionese Liberation Army, a leftist militant group is what the government categorizes them as. This is the story that we know. So while in captivity, she was reportedly brainwashed and later adopted their ideology. Taking the name Tanya, she was famously photographed participating in an armed robbery of a bank in San Francisco. Her involvement led to her arrest in 1975, where she was charged and convicted of bank robbery. Despite claiming she had been coerced, her case sparked public debate about whether she was actually a victim or a willing participant. So, after serving 22 months of a seven-year sentence, her sentence was commuted by President Jimmy Carter in 1979. And later, in 2001, she received a full pardon from President Bill Clinton, officially clearing her criminal record.

Chris: 19:47

She's like a great example of a really rich person.

Rob: 19:52

Patty Hearst's pardon was very controversial because there was a lot of questions about privilege. She came from a very wealthy family. Her grandfather was a very well-known person. You guys probably know the Hearst Castle, right? No idea what that is? Yeah, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about know the Hearst Castle, right?

Victor: 20:05

No idea what that is. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about Hearst Castle. No.

Rob: 20:08

Out in California, nope, nope.

Victor: 20:10

Is it on fire? Is it haunted?

Rob: 20:13

This was one of those debates that was maybe an example of cronyism. This guy was very wealthy and he did contribute a lot to certain sides.

Victor: 20:26

But again I feel like if you don't have an end into the white house, you're fucked like you're not gonna get a pardon.

Cesar: 20:31

But this is what that privilege uh gets you or a groundswell of support, popular support. One of those two things.

Chris: 20:39

But if you're a nobody, no one fucking was there a time where the president gave out pardon and then, because the public, he took it back. Or is there can did you can? Is that possible or the no?

Victor: 20:51

take back sees rule.

Chris: 20:51

Yeah, um in article five two section four oh, I might have missed that five second rule and no take back, oh okay, that's word for word. When alexander hamilton wrote no, take taxis.

Rob: 21:06

That would cause chaos in this country. No vaccines mean something you have to have an in that's or there has to be a huge following behind you. This is completely politically motivated or it's complete cronyism, but that's the power. You're the president. You know you won monopoly and you're like all right, I'm gonna get my friend out of jail, I'm gonna going to buy a couple of places on Baltic. I'm going to do whatever I want. I want this game.

Cesar: 21:28

Because that might be off, but I have heard that after some Netflix documentaries some people like on Death Row or To the World In Jail. They were pardoned Because new information games like Netflix is big, has a big audience and you know it got all the way to the White House or to the individual in charge of yeah, but again.

Victor: 21:49

but how many people are falsely incarcerated and don't have a Netflix special? That's a good point. So it's like those. They're just lucky to be honest. But it's a good look, it's a good.

Rob: 22:00

Look, let's say I'm the president. It's a PR thing. It's a huge. I agree with that. It's a huge PR thing Because if I see all these people on Netflix chanting for this guy he probably submitted an application 20 years ago it looks probably good because they vetted everything on him and I'm like it's an election year. Yeah, maybe I'll drum up a few votes this way and you go ahead and pardon one guy and you might get a lot of support on the other end.

Cesar: 22:24

It's not a bad move, my fellow Americans, I'm going to pardon this guy but don't look at the price of eggs, because they're $30.

Rob: 22:34

The stomach is speaking. It always does. Back to Trump and present day. While President Trump's pardoning of 1,500 January 6th rioters is up there, who do you think holds the record for the most presidential pardons in one day?

Chris: 22:44

I was going to say Biden.

Victor: 22:46

Oh, did you do the reading?

Rob: 22:47

yeah, did you no, I didn't read, it, just did the reading he's a nerd reading bro he read ahead.

Cesar: 22:52

I want to say bush, but I think it might be our boy obama has to be biden.

Chris: 22:57

Do you remember that? I think it was like a one day he literally gave it out to like fucking whole america. I didn't get one, chris I didn't get it.

Victor: 23:02

Yeah, the fuck does that mean?

Cesar: 23:03

because I'm thinking about doing a crime'm thinking about doing a crime.

Rob: 23:07

So, Chris, yeah, you're right Joe Biden, on January 17th, near the last days of his presidency, commuted the sentences of nearly 2,500 people convicted of nonviolent drug offenses, cementing his legacy as the president who has issued the most individual pardons and commutations in US history in one day. Come on man. This is an article by NBC. Biden said in a statement that this would help equalize sentencing disparities. Biden pardoned the most people in one day, but who do you think pardoned the most people in their presidency? Yeah, overall Biden. I was going to say Biden too.

Chris: 23:42

Yeah, yes, biden, that was also Biden. I was going to say Biden too, yeah.

Rob: 23:45

Yes, biden, that was also Biden, yeah, so in his four years he pardoned over 4,200 people. Just to give you some measure, caesar, who did you say you thought pardoned the most people in one day?

Cesar: 24:01

Bush, sagawin.

Rob: 24:03

He pardoned only 200 people, ooh yeah. And his father pardoned 77. Ooh. But you got to remember this when they run these numbers, because I was looking at how they break it down. They break it up into pardons and commutations. So Biden commuted the sentences of 2,500 people, so that doesn't count. But if you look at actually how many he pardoned, he really didn't pardon that much. If you look at actually how many he pardoned, he really didn't pardon that much.

Victor: 24:31

So there, when they kind of spit these numbers out, I had to kind of get in there a little bit. I mean, it says on Wikipedia Joe Biden pardoned 8,064 people, but includes 6,500 possibly pardoned for marijuana possession.

Rob: 24:46

Yeah.

Victor: 24:47

So there you go. Pardoned for marijuana possession yeah, yeah, so there you go. So these numbers here says jimmy carter pardoned 566 people, but that excludes 200 000 people. Pardoned for vietnam draft evasion yes, and that's a lot. And they all have bone spurts.

Cesar: 25:02

The second moat they'll have bone spururs, oh yeah.

Victor: 25:09

Oh baby. The second most was Andrew Johnson. Oh really, he pardoned thousands of ex-Confederates. Yeah, I'm glad you're bringing this up, because Because you're angry about that. It's been a thorn in his side since 1865.

Cesar: 25:27

Yeah, there's so many tiki torches in his basement. He's ready.

Victor: 25:31

And I was actually struggling with that, so that's a great thing.

Rob: 25:34

So, yeah, there's like thousands upon thousands of people who have been pardoned and computed, but it goes to show you that all these presidents have used this power and clearly, right now, it seems like they're using it a lot more.

Cesar: 25:44

Well, you have to think about it right. Like you start pushing the boundaries and we're at a level in our political system where, like, there is no such thing as boundaries anymore. We get all upset and stuff and then the next day something else happens and we kind of forget that that line in the sand is just kind of gets blurred and blurred, and blurred. We're just heading on this potentially scary path for good or bad who knows.

Victor: 26:06

But I mean now is uh, we're in a very politically charged time, like people are like oh, don't bring up politics, don't connect politics. And then people connect politics can't even watch a disney movie. When someone goes yeah, they're pushing that agenda I mean, did you see moana too?

Victor: 26:25

yeah, that's a talking fucking chicken. Like I don't know what are you talking about. I remember I asked someone if they had watched the new Spider-Man and they're like, yeah, it's pushing some fucking agenda. I was just like, dude, it's Spider-Man. Like he fucking flies around New York City with a web Like who gives a shit.

Rob: 26:46

He doesn't fly, he swings.

Victor: 26:49

So new york city with a web like who gives a shit? He doesn't fly, he swings. So right there he's the fucking menace. That's all I know. He's a criminal.

Rob: 26:54

That's who he is a vigilante, a public menace people are too plugged in and they're not.

Victor: 27:00

Their brains can't handle it.

Cesar: 27:01

The problem is they're plugged in, right and then the algorithm is just feeding them information that they don't understand. Yeah, myself included, I'm not even trying to be like I'm better than everyone else, like well, I am.

Chris: 27:09

Algorithm is just feeding them information that they don't understand.

Cesar: 27:11

Yeah, myself included. I'm not even trying to be like I'm better than everyone else Like.

Victor: 27:13

well, I am.

Cesar: 27:13

No, we are. Listen to us, like, comment and subscribe.

Rob: 27:20

Trust us. Victor brought up the you know the infamous Richard Nixon Watergate scandal where Watergate scandal political scandal 1970s. It involved like a break in the Democratic National Committee headquarters, the Watergate complex and Gerald Ford later issued a pardon, full pardon, to Richard Nixon and he said it was to heal the nation. On a lighter note, there are some pardons that are probably not politically charged. You guys know we have a tradition of pardoning a Thanksgiving turkey.

Cesar: 27:48

Yeah, I never understood that.

Victor: 27:51

Listen, I've seen the ceremony right. They go in there, they pardon the turkey. They say, hey, you're free to go. First of all, did the turkey commit any crimes? Yeah, Like.

Chris: 28:00

I don't think so.

Rob: 28:00

That's a preemptive pardon.

Victor: 28:01

What does he need a pardon for? Oh, so now we have turkeys out there that can?

Cesar: 28:06

commit crimes and no one can stop them. Fucking Obama.

Victor: 28:10

Thanks yeah, Thanks Obama, Thanks Obama.

Rob: 28:13

When I was reading about it they said it dates back to like the 1940s. National Turkey Federation began presenting the president with a live turkey for Thanksgiving and there's kind of like the exact origins from when I was trying to figure it out of the pardon are debated, but they say JFK is often credited with sparing a turkey in 1963 and then kind of said, hey, let's keep this tradition going.

Victor: 28:36

That's why the CIA got him yeah.

Rob: 28:41

And since then these pardoned turkeys typically retire to farms or shank sanctuaries where they can live out their days.

Victor: 28:48

I feel like you're just trying to say like they went upstate they went up, they went to the farm upstate. They went to poughkeepsie you know you lost your dog.

Rob: 28:56

That's where that turkey went.

Victor: 28:57

Now they're upstate right, they're meeting the other turkeys that were pardoned and they're planning crimes and shit.

Cesar: 29:03

But guess what? They're all pardoned.

Victor: 29:05

So so Exactly, that's the fucking issue.

Rob: 29:08

We're in trouble, so let's go over a list of some people that you may not have heard about that were pardoned. You guys know anybody that's kind of weird that might have gotten pardoned without looking it up on the internet and then feeding it back to me.

Victor: 29:21

Patty Hearst Nixon.

Rob: 29:24

So Jim Morrison, I'm Jim Morrison Nixon. So Jim Morrison. Jim Morrison, lead singer of the Doors, had been convicted of indecent exposure and profanity during a concert in Miami and was pardoned by Jimmy Carter, who issued it to him posthumously over eight years after his death in 1971. So Jim Morrison, oh great.

Victor: 29:46

So he really benefited yeah, he really benefited his death in 1971.

Rob: 29:48

So Jim Morrison oh great, so he really benefited. Yeah, he really benefited, but it's weird because he wasn't alive to benefit from the pardon and the act was more symbolic than anything. Victor said that after the Civil War, andrew Johnson issued a blanket pardon to Confederate leaders, including Jefferson Davies, and this move was part of an effort to unify the nation. So again you can see that mercy, mercy, unification that's basically the whole point of this. And then you guys probably have noticed or heard recently that President Trump granted a full and unconditional pardon to Ross Ulbricht, the founder of Silk Road, who had an underground online marketplace for facilitating the sale of illegal drugs and illicit goods. He was sentenced to two life sentences plus 40 years and received a full and unconditional pardon recently.

Cesar: 30:36

Damn.

Rob: 30:36

Do you know why? To hit him up on the DM, God damn. Or he's probably going to build something in the background. And here's another one. Cesar George Steinbrenner, the controversial owner of the New York Yankees, was convicted for making illegal campaign contributions to Richard Nixon during his reelection campaign. He was fined $15,000 and sentenced to two years of probation. However, Gerald Ford granted Steinbrenner a full pardon for his conviction. So do you think that he filled out the application or he just hit him up and got pardoned?

Cesar: 31:11

Probably sent one of his agents. It's like hey, listen, I need you to get that baseball player for me and also do this on the side. That's the boss. Go, get me a couple of calzones right now. Prado, move it out.

Rob: 31:20

This is it. I mean, pardons are a double-edged sword. On one hand, they have the tool for justice and mercy, and on the other hand, is it cronyism. Is there something behind it? Some proposed transparency measures or even limits on the types of crimes that can be pardoned, but that's kind of what we're dealing with. So any key takeaways, chris?

Chris: 31:40

Man, it sounds dangerous, like if you use it wrongly, you know. But if you do use it right or correctly, it pardons. It could be good, it could be a good thing, but um, yeah, it's, I don't. It is wild, though.

Cesar: 31:56

I didn't realize you can just pardon anybody, or anything caesar yeah, man, like anything else in politics, this can be used as a tool for good or good or evil, whatever it is, uh, depending on who sits in the president's chair. I have heard of, you know, let's say, inmates or people on the throw or stuff like that. They were innocent, but because of the you know, like you mentioned red tape, they were still on death row and then the president has a part of them. So in that essence, it is good. But then you have all these little nefarious parties that, like I mentioned earlier, blur the line and kind of allow for the next president. So just keep pushing it and pushing it, and pushing it. It is a slippery slope.

Victor: 32:37

Victor. It's a tricky situation because I mean you can see where it can be of extreme benefit. It's also a power that can be easily abused. It's also a power that can be easily abused, and I just want to take this rest of my time here to try to urge us to stop pardoning these turkeys that are running a fucking muck and destroying this country, the fabric of the United States of America, and I will not stand for it.

Cesar: 33:08

I thought you were going to go a little different direction.

Rob: 33:11

No, that's exactly where we needed him to go.

Cesar: 33:13

I thought you were going to shit on Chris for some reason.

Victor: 33:15

Chris isn't going to get a pardon for any of his episodes, especially ketchup on pizza. You should be jailed for that.

Rob: 33:23

So thank you for tuning in. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram, twitter and YouTube at I'm Not Dumb, but where we post extra fun content you may not find on the podcast, and before you go, hit that subscribe button because you'll feel better. Trust me, until next time, stay curious Later.